Belle Wiffen: 0:01

Imagine your mind opening and your brain and your skills just opening so wide, and you start to notice things that you didn't see before.

[Music]: 0:10

[Music playing]

James Evenson: 0:24

Welcome to the Global Investor Podcast. The goal of this podcast is to offer investors and entrepreneurs insights and practical advice to dramatically improve the kinds of deals that you invest in and returns you get. My name is James Evenson. I'm one of the partners at Crown Private and our investor syndicate, Obris. Obris is about exceptional people, unique experiences and bespoke investment. Our membership and our community are made up of like-minded yet unique and adventurous individuals as well as family offices. We invest in a spectrum of deals from established companies to startups, and we do so with a proven formula of due diligence, structuring and management. Today, I'm very excited to introduce you to Belle Wiffen. Belle is an entrepreneur. She is the owner of multiple businesses. She is a property investor and developer in Queensland, Australia. She's also a mother and a wife. Belle has a strong interest in human behavior, in developing business culture, exploring consciousness, and in universal laws. Belle is inspired to create solutions that solve meaningful problems in business as well as life. She has also committed to building teams of exceptional people to execute these visions. She does so in the companies that she has created. Her current project has been to develop a mobile app for meditation. Belle and I are both proponents for the significant value of meditation for entrepreneurs, investors and really, for people of all walks of life. Our interview today delves into how the foundational elements of freedom, focus, leadership and mindfulness define Belle, as an entrepreneur as an investor, as a human being. Welcome Belle. Welcome Belle, thank you very much for joining us.

Belle Wiffen: 2:18

Thank you, James. It's a pleasure to be here.

James Evenson: 2:20

Well, much appreciated. Tell me where on our planet are you as we're speaking today?

Belle Wiffen: 2:28

I'm in Brisbane, Australia

James Evenson: 2:30

Well, I'll give a little context to our viewers and listeners. We first met just over four years ago in Hong Kong. And I distinctly remember two conversations, they both were group conversations...you and your husband, Travis, myself and a couple of other people. One I remember was a very deep conversation in the bar at the Upper House overlooking Hong Kong. And the second one, probably a little bit less emotional, the emotional energy with a little bit lower was at the Four Seasons poolside. Do you remember this? When we were all sitting around for I don't know how many hours just chatting, but it was remarkable how deep the conversation went. And we had just met. And I just I remember, I felt a kindred kindred spirit of intuition coming from you. And then likewise, Travis and I had met, you know, a week a week earlier. So we had some head headway on that. But I look back on that time of establishing the bond with you and with Travis. And you continue to show how even more intriguing you are. And clearly the intuition is every everything every encounter we have, I see and hear and experience, that depth that you can convey of who you are. So with that in mind, I'd like you to tell us, tell our listeners and viewers about what actually defines you.

Belle Wiffen: 4:07

Hmm, it depends. It depends which point of view you're asking from, but what defines me, I'd say I love to see the best in people. And I love to look for the beauty in the world and the beauty in others. And I think with that has come...Over the years I've had to develop like a level of wisdom to tone that down so that I'm not too optimistic or to kind of question that like, Yes, I see the best in this person. But let me think through considering all sides. Because if you just see the best in someone or look for the best in a situation, you know, it can set you up for a rude shock if you're too naive or too optimistic. So, but I love to see the beauty in the world and I love to see patterns. I notice patterns everywhere I look from...and this could be from going down the rabbit hole and exploring really deep, I guess areas of consciousness and experimenting in deep meditation. And once you see certain things you can't unsee them. So I love just to see synchronicities and coincidences. And it's not a coincidence. To me. It's all in perfect order.

James Evenson: 5:20

Gotcha, gotcha. We're going to delve into some of the different aspects of what what defines you. During during this interview, in the introduction, I told folks about you...entrepreneur, Mom, inventor of an app, as well, that we're going to talk a little bit about, I think that probably the best element of who you are, that to set the stage for our listeners for other things we're talking about, because I think this is foundational is freedom. Freedom defines you. What is freedom Belle? And how have you created freedom?

Belle Wiffen: 6:00

I think, you know, when you're a child, and you just feel so curious, and you want to explore things and understand, I didn't want to lose that. So I think I've always tried to create freedom in my life. And I like rules, and I like order, but I don't really like being held down or confined. And so, yeah, I've worked on creating freedom in my life, so that I don't have to do what anyone tells me. And I can do whatever I want, whenever I feel like it. And I think part of that is being able to create an income to support that type of lifestyle, but also a level of not taking yourself too seriously. So you can allow yourself to accept help from other experts in your life, especially running different businesses and allowing, you know, clever, intelligent people to take over businesses for you. So you can you know, step back and be free.

James Evenson: 6:57

What was life like before, in, in business, and family, etc, before you discovered freedom.

Belle Wiffen: 7:07

I just feel like I've always been free. I just feel like I've never allowed anyone to control me. And I've consciously chosen what I wanted to do. I think being an entrepreneur is something that you create freedom in your life, because you choose what you want to do, you choose what solution you want to provide, what problem you want to solve. And then when you create stress in your life, you're definitely not free. But if everything's running smoothly, there's a sense of freedom. You don't feel victimized by your life, you feel like you're consciously choosing what you want to do.

James Evenson: 7:41

Right? It's being self, self defined. As I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about, we can allow the world to dictate how we think. How we live. But you are one who has lived freely and in your various business and life endeavors that is something that you practice, not just for yourself, but for the people that you work with. So I imagine there isn't one formula for how you help folks experience freedom. But if there was, what would that look like?

Belle Wiffen: 8:15

Mm hmm. It's interesting, because as the more we talk about freedom, the more I'm actually reflecting on, it's probably different for each person, you know, like a person in a third world country that's got a soccer ball, and they can run outside and play soccer anytime they want. They might feel free freedom in doing that. But I think um in a, in a practical way, creating freedom in businesses is about having the right people having the right systems and a good vision so that people can follow that. And that's really a good formula to set yourself up for freedom.

James Evenson: 8:51

And how have you worked to give...can you think of a couple of examples of the leaders that you have raised up in your companies? Of how you help them experience that?

Belle Wiffen: 9:02

Yes, yes. So when we set up our outsourcing business in the Philippines, we got really lucky and employed a really good executive assistant. And when we first went to the Philippines, we went to gather employees to support our own businesses in Australia, and we weren't planning on setting up an outsourcing business or anything like that. And I think through recruitment over the years recruiting different people for different businesses, we've really looked for people that share our values. And I think if you find someone that has that kind of willingness to grow and develop themselves and they've got a voice, they can speak up, they can have an ability to see multiple sides of a situation and they share your values. That's a really good way to develop or bring leaders up finding someone that you can resonate with.

James Evenson: 9:57

I think that makes sense to in that you live in Australia, and that particular business is in the Philippines. You would need to, to make sure that when you're not present, or even when you are present, that, that those folks are living living out the values that are important to your company. And I know that you as a human being are also concerned about the the overall well being of the people that you work with you and for you.

Belle Wiffen: 10:25

And especially with leadership, because they're developing other leaders as well. So if you're letting someone lead your company, and they're going to be developing other leaders, you need to think through, well, how are they going to develop these leaders? What are they going to teach them? What skill sets? Or what areas will they be developing, and that's why I think values are a really core fundamental thing, that if you surround yourself with people, or bring people into your company that share those values, then you can kind of let them shine and know that they'll operate in accordance with the way you think. And those leaders will develop in that way, in line with your values.

James Evenson: 11:03

True, true, true. Let's talk a bit about entrepreneurship. You are clearly an entrepreneur, I won't ask you how many different businesses that you've started or even how many you're currently involved with. But when did you first discover that you were an entrepreneur?

Belle Wiffen: 11:23

I don't think you know that you're an entrepreneur when you start. And I especially noticed the word entrepreneur, when I became an entrepreneur, to when people started actually saying it, entrepreneur was a bit more of a taboo word and or it wasn't really used as much as it's used right now. And so people used to say to me, you're an entrepreneur, and I thought, Oh, no, I'm not that.

James Evenson: 11:50

What did you think they were telling you you were?

Belle Wiffen: 11:53

Well, my perception of an entrepreneur was like a person that, you know, runs $100 million company, and they've got 1000s of employees. And, you know, it's really like a Richard Branson, or a big deal like that. Not someone that's peddling stuff on the street, or like little startups here and there, like...Now we know and with the internet and everything, you know, there's kind of tech founders and the solopreneurs everywhere in Bali, and Brazil, and there's entrepreneurs everywhere. But I think an entrepreneur at heart is someone that just solves problems, or they don't settle for the status quo. And they see something that's not right, and it gets up their goat, and they think I can do this better. And then they go and do it, or they go and find a way to do it. And so my earliest endeavor, actually, my my mother was designing some clothing. And I said, Mom, I think I can sell this. And so I grabbed a whole suitcase full of samples. I think I was 15 or 16. And I just went around to all the local boutiques, and I showed them mom's clothes and got orders. And yeah, so that was a little business that we had together. Yeah. And then when I was 17, I moved to the Netherlands. And I'd been working in an Aboriginal Art Gallery in Australia. And I thought, I'm going to take some art with me. So I packed up a big suitcase full of samples. And I made a portfolio and then I walked around all the major cities in the Netherlands. I caught a train. I caught a train to Amsterdam and Utrecht and I was living in Rotterdam. And I just went door knocking showing all of the art and I think I only got one customer. But I also set up an Aboriginal art exhibition over there. And that was actually quite a success. So there were some big art collectors that came and yeah. And while I was there, actually I got this thing called winter toes like I'm this little Queensland that's used to being very warm, and I get to the Netherlands and it's absolutely freezing. And I thought my toes were going to freeze off. And I said to my boyfriend's mother, can you take me to get some Ugg boots? And she said, What, what's Ugg boots? No, we don't. I said, it's like slippers that have got a woolen insert so it can keep your feet warm. And she said, No, no, no, we don't have that here. And I said, Are you kidding me? You guys really need that here. So my next project was going to research these Ugg boots and how can I get Ugg boots, the Netherlands and you know, it's the that's the path. And then sometimes as an entrepreneur, you end up down the path having had a couple of successful businesses here and there and they might still be running in a few startups. And then you think, gosh, like if I just had been an executive, like, maybe I could have gone into human resources and just been an HR executive, not had to worry about like running any businesses or cash flow. You know, life might be more simple. So, you know, there's a glamour about being an entrepreneur, but it's really hard and you...it's school of hard knocks.

James Evenson: 15:07

It is. I think about all the startups that we have that we've worked with. And I see, you know, they start off with great ideas that they're creating something. And then, you know, within a short period of time, they're having to raise money, and they're facing investors, and they're having to grow the company. And it is hard, hard work. And for...it's funny that you mentioned Richard Branson, because we know him as he is now. But if you...have you read his book, Losing My Virginity, where he lost Virgin, how he lost Virgin Records in order to create Virgin Airlines, among others. He was in the trenches with that. I mean, he lost a lot more, but then we don't know him for that today. By the way, anyone who's listening, watching who has not read Richard Branson's Losing My Virginity, that's probably on the top five of the books that I recommend to people. Have you read it, Belle?

Belle Wiffen: 16:08

I haven't. We do have it here. I have it in the house. But I've opened it a few times. I'm familiar with the story. But it's a very easy read. You can kind of pick it up and just start reading it. And there's a certain humility about Richard Branson, you know how he says he can't even read a P&L? Like, I'm sure he can. But I just love his humility. And I think there's a lot to be learned from him about becoming free, about creating freedom in your life, because he does put the right people in place and get out of the way. He's just the vision guy. And, yeah,

James Evenson: 16:45

You're right. And he's willing to do pretty much anything. You know, I think of some of the publicity stunts that he has done for the launching of businesses, and very few people would would do that. And, uh, it has is served him very well. And also, I like your what you just said is he has lived very freely in life. Well, let's fast forward to the present day, you have a portfolio of endeavors that you are involved with, companies that you've started, projects that you have you have created. Give us a snapshot of what you're involved with right now.

Belle Wiffen: 17:23

Well, front of mind, what I've been dealing with this week is a unit development that we're doing a little bit further north. I think we've spoken about property, it's it's really going crazy at the moment. And I think no one knew what was going to happen with COVID. And but we had some government stimulus down here. And they've accidentally overstimulated the building market to the point that there's no supply available. And, you know, people are having to wait a long time for their constructions for their homes to be built. But yeah, we've got a few different unit developments that we're working on. And personally, what I love about that is the creative side of it and watching it coming to life. So my husband and I work really well in a partnership. He's kind of the numbers, really big picture guy. And I'm a little bit more detail oriented and structured. And so with the with the property, I do all of the design work and all of our architectural activities, and then watch it come to life. And that's a really fun and fulfilling process for me. And I also love that the the units that we're selling are in an affordable bracket for people. So for first time buyers or people that are downsizing, and I really like helping people to have a nice space that don't have a very big budget. Even though the market is going up a lot right now. I love being in that space. So kind of creating something special. So I'm working on that, and my outsourcing company in the Philippines, and then we have our our laundromats in the Philippines as well. And we have our hygiene business in Victoria. It's there's been some sad stories with the hygiene business and restaurants have really struggled but you know, they're all opening up again now. And and that's going really well for us. And yeah, we're looking at a few different things. And then we've got the app, the meditation app that I've built.

James Evenson: 19:30

And we're gonna be talking about that in greater detail in a little bit. That's, that's my that's the most that's your endeavor that's most exciting to me. I do remember on the real estate, it was probably about three years ago, when we were there on the waterfront there in Brisbane. And you know, I think Trav was pointing out to me, he said you look around everywhere and the cost of real estate is insanely low right now. He said I remember he said this is a phenomenal opportunity. Look, we're three years later. And look how much your the real estate market has developed in greater Brisbane or in Queensland, overall, my gosh. Well, I'd like to talk to you a little bit more about leadership and put you on the spot of what makes you a good leader, Belle?

Belle Wiffen: 20:24

Well, I believe a really fundamental thing is to be continuously developing yourself, to always be open to learn and grow. Because nothing stands still in this universe in this world, our lives don't stand still. And I don't want to be dying, I want to be growing. So I think that's the number one thing and especially because the world is changing so quickly around us. And if we have an expectation of our people to grow, we kind of need to lead the way. And it's interesting, I can get on a little bit of a rant about this, but we're talking about leader, leadership and culture. You know, I've heard stories of these leaders, you know, their culture is just a disaster. And their attrition is terrible. And it's crazy things going on inside the company. And they pull this HR manager in, and they say, fix my company, fix my culture. And you know, that HR manager does everything she can, or the change management people, and they're trying to work to build this culture. And then you've got the leader doing this ridiculous behavior, or like, you know, throwing Well, if they say, You're not allowed to, you know, have sex with employees, but then they'll throw a wild party, and then they'll have like, multiple women there, and there'll be up to no mischief up to no good. And, you know, if you do that in closed doors in a private place, and it's not exposed to anyone in your company, or employees or anything, maybe you can get away with it. But it's like with children, whatever you do, people will copy. So I think as a leader, it's really important. If you want to create a certain culture in your company with your people, you have to lead by example, lead as you as you'd want them to follow, and you can't expect to ask them to do something that you wouldn't be prepared to do yourself. But yeah, I always get back to values with leadership. So you know, my perception of a leader might be different to yours or to someone else, if someone whatever they value, whatever they value in their company, the way they want to run their company or their business. I think choosing the people that resonate with you and your vision and your mission, and the way you want to operate, that's the most important thing. And you can lead those people, well, you can lead that company well. But when there's a mismatch, then I think you might not be seen as a good leader.

James Evenson: 22:53

It's been well past a year since you've been to TBelle, you're outsourcing business in the Philippines. How has that been managed? without you being on the ground? Where before? Weren't you visiting? For chunks of time, at least a few times a year?

Belle Wiffen: 23:13

I was Yes, I was. It's funny, as entrepreneurs and as founders, we tend to have a very high value on our input, on our own importance. And we think that our companies need us to run. Or we can have we can have that idea, you know? And then if you secretly go around and interview all the employees, the classic responses Oh no, they're here. And you get this entrepreneur that walks in the door and starts interrupting everyone, I have got this idea and, you know, throws everyone's productivity off and asks people for things when they're in the middle of something when, if it was added to a project management software or something they could see that's on their task list or, you know, so I think we're

James Evenson: 23:57

So you try not to do that when you when you show up.

Belle Wiffen: 24:00

Micromanage people and get in their way? It's been me learning where my value is, and, and sticking to that, I think, and so, in the beginning, I tried to run it myself. But, and we even thought about moving there. But then and I liked doing that I like getting in and getting my hands dirty, and being part of it. But it just it wasn't possible. So quickly had to put systems in place to make that function. Without us. And, you know, entrepreneurs love to have everything in their head or their processes and everything but the more you can get that out on paper, everything's just reoccurring anyway. And I think with my CEO, what she learned about me and something that we share is like meticulous kind of attention to detail and pursuit of excellence and So, when there's this constant pursuit of excellence, like, I know she's doing that, and she gets that about me, like, I want it perfect if anything's wrong, I'm like, why isn't this right? Is it a human error? Is it a systems error? Like we quickly do a root cause analysis and figure out how did this go wrong? Let's not let it happen again. And it's kind of that Kaizen approach, you know, continuous improvement. And I don't need to be involved when the leaders act in that way. And they know what's important to me. And so they do that, they make that make it happen that way.

James Evenson: 25:34

And I can tell you firsthand, I, I know that they don't need you, in Cebu. I think it was probably two and a half years ago that Marvin and I went with Travis down to your...we met up, well to look at the laundry business because we were looking at possibly buying into that to expand it. But also we went to the office and we were met by your your CEO and the team. And I never felt like I never felt like I was on a pedestal because I was a foreigner. I felt like I was respected at the time, just a guest, but also a prospective client. And then when we were considering outsourcing, just last year, I remember you and I had the initial call and then Angel, your CEO, and I had had the follow up call. And she's doing great. I mean, you you've done a phenomenal job of finding someone to fill the role of a leader, not just because she is similar to you. But because she's already it's, it's intrinsic to who she is, as well. And so she has her own her own way of living that out. So yeah, it's unfortunate if your ego depended upon other people worshipping you, I think you'd be in a very different a different place.

Belle Wiffen: 26:59

And it's not just our egos, though, you know, because when we can get in and solve a problem, or we can, if we get amongst drama, like there's a chemical reaction in our bodies, and you know, we might generate some cortisol or something like that. And then every time we get to solve something, or we get exposed to a drama, and then we want to intervene, we get a chemical hit. So your body can create an addiction to that chemical hit. So even if you don't, even if you want to be free of your business, or not getting involved in that, if you can gain a level of awareness over your body, and that your body wants that chemical hit or it wants to be involved in a situation you can consciously stop in the moment and say, if I get involved right now, I'm going to disempower my people and not give them the opportunity to solve it. I need to step back and let them solve it because they are capable, and then kind of overcome yourself, especially as an entrepreneur because we fix stuff, right? We're fixers. So it's getting over the fact that yes, we know you can fix it. Yep. How about you get out of the way and let someone else fix it.

James Evenson: 28:14

I realized recently that I like being Superman, I like being plunged into something and in fixing it. But I completely agree with you. It's not the waving of a wand kind of fix. It is getting in, doing what we're supposed to do, what our...what we're intrinsically designed to do. But that's...a lot of that, if we're a good leader, is getting the people around us the team really to solve the problem. Because if you're just doing a fix, you're not really solving the problem. Yes, you're solving an immediate problem. And it may have ramifications if you don't. But if you're really solving the problem, even if you're Wonder Woman or Superman, you are engaging your people, your team to actually ultimately solve the problem.

Belle Wiffen: 29:14

And they might not solve it the same way that you do. But as long as it's solved, and the outcomes are met, it's still okay. As long as the customer is happy and Yeah.

James Evenson: 29:31

Because you're going to go back home or you're going to get off the call, and they're still in the Philippines, dealing with whatever whatever it is. Now, at the same time, I know that it's not just a completely hands off endeavor this year. I'm sure that you're on the on video calls, probably even more than you'd prefer engagement and just being informed of what's going on.

Belle Wiffen: 29:57

I have a fortnightly call with my leadership team. And we have, we have metrics in place for everything. We have KPIs, we have NPS scores for our customers, we have all of our employees have their own KPIs and targets. And so everything is measured. So I get shown a report with, are we meeting the targets? Or are we not meeting the targets? And I also have a level of care for everyone's well-being. So they update me on the targets and the well-being. And, and that's basically it. But it's

James Evenson: 30:41

It wasn't that way in the beginning...

Belle Wiffen: 30:43

Oh, of course not. No, it took some time. It's, that's, I mean, that's where it's come to now. But I think vision is really important, because it gives context to everything. So, you know, and with this problem solving issue, and that kind of thing, like if people understand the vision, and they know where they're going, they can find their own deep connection to it and find meaning in it for themselves. And then they can give context to all the situations that they come across. They can give context, you know, is this in line with our vision? And am I operating in line with our values? If the answer is yes to those things, things are things will flow smoothly. Mm hmm. And so one of the one of the topics that came up the other day that was outside of well being and metrics was actually about values. And one of our new team leaders that's coming in, she's doing a really amazing job with a team that she's running. She...Angel, the CEO tasked her with measuring our values, the behavior inside her team. And so it really put her on the spot, because, and I noticed that we will benefit from having her present our values to us and see her depth of understanding, like how does she actually see and feel the values, because if she's going to be implementing that within her team and making sure it's happening, we need to make sure she's got a really good foundation and understanding of them. So yeah, I took a moment to talk about that with her but and that's where that's where I bring some value in, like putting emphasis on the values.

James Evenson: 32:23

We have talked a lot about leadership, entrepreneurship. I want to move into a realm that is actually very close to my mind and my heart, and really a lot of the reason that I wanted to interview you, Belle. And that is a key part of entrepreneurship, of leadership of just living life is truly understanding ourselves and not just the physical, not just the mental. But what sur-, what surrounds us. And the topic I'm on right now is that of the role of meditation. And I just know my own firsthand experience of how crucial meditation is, for life for me to start my day, of getting out of not starting my day with the to do list of everything I have to do, but of being able to center and let go of me. And to actually find my agenda in for the day. How am I going to live my life for the day, interact with people, coming out of my whole being rather than just the to do list? Now I oversimplified it, because for me, meditation is something is I find is valuable throughout the throughout the day and throughout life. And I know that you are far more even an expert in this realm. And I know you'll say to me, oh, James, you're still in the novice that you personally Belle, you think you're probably still a bit more than a novice. But the truth is, I know there's much more about that. I'd love to delve into that. But let's start with the topic of an app. So two years ago, you and Travis were here in Portland, you were part of Dr. Joe Dispensa's team at various events. And part you're part of his leadership team. And I remember we were we were sitting at dinner and you said James, in a meditation recently, I created an app, a meditation app. So we're going to fast forward two years...at that point in time it was a concept, you were able to articulate it. I believe in writing after the fact. And then two years later, I have that app on my phone and I use that app all the time. First of all, let's set the stage before we go into the app. Tell us about how did your spiritual mindfulness, personal development, personal development, journey begin? And why. So we got to put the context in of you Belle? Because it's not just about this, this conversation isn't about meditation in general. It's about you. So...

Belle Wiffen: 35:35

Hmmm. That's a rabbit hole question, but I'll answer it very briefly. My father is a professor in genetics, a scientist and academic. He's actually now in an administration role in leadership. But he's been a professor for many years. And my mother is more of the eccentric, creative, really free spirited lady, entrepreneurial. And, you know, she also loves academia. But my dad and my mother are very, very different people. And actually, they divorced when I was very young. But, you know, throughout my life, Dad was quite matter of fact, black and white and encouraging me to go into the sciences and to go to university and you know, down that academic path, and you can imagine what he thinks about my entrepreneurial choices. Every time I have a business idea, he's like, hmm, how about you go into a science degree instead? Anyway, it's like, it's ok. It's, it's all figured out. But then, with Mom, you know, she, she had these clairvoyant friends, and they'd be predicting the future, and they'd be doing all this weird stuff. And sometimes the clairvoyants would be correct in their predictions, or one lady found a missing person for the police. And it's you can't quantify or measure it. And I, I knew that there was something there. And I had to figure out how it worked. So it kind of started me off on this path. When I was 12, or 13. I started going to church and trying to figure it out myself. And I went through lots of different religions and spoke to different leaders in their field trying to figure out like was, how can I prove this? I know there's something there, there's got to be proof, let me understand it. And then I found later in my early 20s, really more about quantum physics, and it's a science that can give a lot of answers, even though it's a quirky thing to study, because it changes when you observe it, you know. It's the science that I found that it can explain the weird and wonderful things. And that's, that's what started me off down the path. And that led to meditation.

James Evenson: 38:07

What role does meditation serve? Or how is meditation a foundational part of your personal development?

Belle Wiffen: 38:16

Meditation disconnects me from the outside world. So what we see around us, all of our busy things, our busy lives, our activities, we're kind of in this illusion, where this is what we see. And this is what we think our life is. And in the physical 3-D world, that's it is that that's our truth, that's what we've created. But when we go inward, and they call it 5-D, like the quantum field, or disconnect from the outside world, and go inward. And that's when we connect to this vastness, where anything is possible. And it's an unlimited place, really. So when you disconnect from the outside world, you create all of this space for new things to come in. So you receive new insights, your energy changes, I mean, you would know the benefits yourself from doing it on a day to day basis. But the benefits are extraordinary. And then there's some hacks as well so you can begin to like consciously create your life once you understand how it works, you can begin like kind of manipulating things to make cool stuff happen like a real life magician, create your life.

James Evenson: 39:30

Let's save that for a future podcast, that's that I completely agree with you, you're spot on. Well, for a lot of folks, that just the thought of meditation is something completely out there or even they're disconnected with their they think they're disconnected with the metaphysical. They just don't realize that how much they really are. Or there's just lack of awareness. So what what advice would you give to folks for for entrepreneurs in particular, where to start.

Belle Wiffen: 40:00

Yeah, I think it's important to remember what I mentioned before about the body. So the body thinks that it's in charge, and it runs the show. But the mind actually is greater than the body. And the mind is like the master, the mind can call can call all the shots. But the body kind of just follows these habitual actions, gets up in the morning makes coffee, you kind of do these normal things that you do in a habit. But if the mind makes a conscious choice, you can actually disrupt the process and do something different. And so with meditation, you need to get your body to sit down and be quiet and be still for a minute. And so even the thought of that can be like, I don't have time for that, I'm not interested in doing that, or the body can, you might have an intention, I'm going to try and sit down and meditate and see what it's like, but the body might try to overcome you. So it's just being aware that the body is like a child or a toddler. And the mind is the master or the parent. And the mind has, can have control over the body if it decides to consciously step in. So if someone was interested in exploring the benefits of meditation, first become aware of that, that your body will probably give you grief, but just sit it down and tell it just to be quiet and sit down for a minute while you try this. And then there's so many types of meditation you can try. But just a candle, actually, a really simple meditation is just lighting a candle, and look at the flame and observe the flame and then close your eyes, and then see the flame in your mind. And you keep watching the flame. And then when it disappears, open your eyes again and look at the flame and get the picture like the etching of the flame in your mind, close your eyes again, and focus on the flame and just do that for like five or if you can do 10 minutes, and it brings you so present. And so aware that when you come out of it, all of a sudden your busy life has slowed right down, and you begin to see things that you didn't see before. So if we're talking about benefits as an entrepreneur or an investor, imagine your mind opening and your brain and your skills just opening so wide. And you start to notice things that you didn't see before. So you function and operate at a much higher level than what you would if you're in your important busy day to day thing. You become you become a master, you become more aware, you become a master of your life, and you're less emotional as well. So you're aware of your emotions in decision making, they don't run you as much, you can be kind of more present and more open and aware in decision making. And it helps with stress. Like, you know, the benefits are numerous.

James Evenson: 42:55

No I can I completely agree with you. As I'm listening. I'm just thinking of how I live my day. And I, I find that you're spot on Belle. Life is is life is not easy in business. But for me, meditation plays a key role in being able to open the creativity and to really to solve solve the problems. I'm a much better Superman with getting that disconnect from everything that frenetic life that's going on. And I think of the people you know, my friends, those who just live in the frenetic moments, I think that they could be a lot more productive, happy, at peace, connected, you know? So you're both business person and metaphysical person. What does that what does it mean to be a business person with a metaphysical lens?

Belle Wiffen: 43:59

Well, I began to touch on it really, just now. And in fact, I just when you're talking about the creativity of meditation, I was thinking about Ray Dalio. You know, Ray Dalio from Bridgewater. Yeah, so he's practiced Transcendental Meditation for many years, I think, probably at least 30 years. And he attributes most of his creative thinking to, to the meditation practice. That he's had, most of his insights come from that meditation practice. So I think, and when you become more aware, you notice more synchronicities in your life. And when you meditate, and if you're in a really good state in your meditation, and you begin to think about something that you want to happen in your business, and then your idea meditation you going through your day, and all of a sudden, spooky stuff starts to happen. And these things start popping up from what you asked for in your meditation. That's how you can bring the metaphysical and business together, or the metaphysical and investing together. You start to become aware of your environment and the feedback that it gives you. And our environment is giving us feedback all the time. And you know, some people call it universal law, or laws of nature, but everything has an order. And the more we become aware of it, the more we can just just gain gain so much deeper wisdom in our lives and in our decision making. So, hmm, it's meditation will help you become more aware of that.

James Evenson: 45:43

I think you've said or you've explained it quite well. Well, let's move into a tool. Tell us about the Med Collective?

Belle Wiffen: 45:51

Well, actually, it's a fun story to tell you the meditation that I had of when that idea came to me.

James Evenson: 45:59

I shouldn't have told I should have let you tell. I should have let you tell. Go ahead.

Belle Wiffen: 46:03

That's okay, you didn't, you didn't tell what I saw in my meditation. Because it wasn't the app in its current form. I think that's just the beginning. But there's more to come with this technology. But okay, so sometimes I play Mario Kart with my son, the Nintendo racing game. And then

James Evenson: 46:24

That's a true confession, isn't it?

Belle Wiffen: 46:26

It is. And also, I used to play Mario Brothers when I was a kid. It's how my brothers and I still bond. Just quietly on a Sunday. Yeah, but so when you play Mario Kart, and probably other video games, there's a playback feature. So for me, I'm usually running into bumpers, and you see the post production or the after aftermath of the race, it plays back to you afterwards. And I see myself like where I could improve and don't always watch it, but it just plays automatically. So now, inside this meditation, actually, to give you a little bit more context, the more you meditate, the more you learn all of these different types of meditation, there are so many different skills and tools that we can learn, you know, you can go into your third eye and activate your pineal gland. And that's kind of this interdimensional experience, we get a lot of lucid, really cool, you know, they talk about DMT, that you do that with your pineal gland, you turn the chemistry on in your body to create that effect. Or you can open your heart and radiate, you know, gratitude and love and a coherent heart signal. And they can measure that the HeartMath Institute measures that. And they've measured all the health benefits and the influence that it has on your environment around you. Or you can do breathwork. So there's so many different techniques that you can incorporate into a meditation. And so at this event I was at, we were doing lots of different styles of meditate, lots of different techniques. And I thought, what if I could change up these techniques and do them in a different pattern, not the way the teachers delivering it? Or I wonder what else other people would like to do in the audience, how they would arrange the meditation? How would they do their heart first in their breath later. And so I was inside this meditation. And I was inside this really futuristic kind of white capsule, and it had a lounge inside it. And then I had all of this biotech biotech hooked up to me like a brain cap and my heart signal and like, patches all over me. And now we're reading my vitals. And so when I'd go into a meditation, I chose my meditation inside the capsule. And I chose my experience, I created my experience using the iPad or the software that was there, and I created my own meditation. And then I hit go, and then I went into it. And then all my vitals were measured, and then I could see the playback. So like the Mario Kart, I could see the playback of what was happening to my Yeah, so what's happening to my physiology inside that meditation, because once you get like, once you get it, like, there's just nothing better. I don't think there's any drug in the world. There's the chemistry, the experience that we can create when we connect in meditation. It's like we've read, we've read the brain, I've been at events, and I've had my brain read, and you can see the brain goes into gamma, which is usually when people have an epileptic fit, they go into gamma. But it also happens in extreme states of euphoria, or like orgasmic states or something like that. And so you can learn how to create these states and you can just take the ride of your life and being a person that likes to refine things. I just wanted to keep refining my experience to have a better and better experience and also give other people the opportunity to do that. So in my meditation, that's what I saw. And then I came out of it. And I told Trav and I got this and this. And he's like, well, just let's just do the software. First, why don't we do that in an app? And I said, Okay, let's do that in an app. So it's create your own experience inside the app. But you know, we don't have the biotech attached to it yet. So you know, I need to go and get a bunch of brain scientists together and develop that tech that can be used at home. There is some tech out there right now, but it's not as accurate as it could be. But you know, consolidating all the biotech that's in the world and developing some new things and having it talk to the app, so you can have your own experience at home, observing what happens in your physiology and then refinine and critique that so you can keep having a more epic experience over and over.

James Evenson: 50:54

I you know, before the interview started, we were talking about the Apple Watch, and what that might be key to getting all the some of the feedback for the for the body image.

Belle Wiffen: 51:07

I do need...I' need a really strong NDA.

James Evenson: 51:14

True, I don't think we want everything recorded to the to the cloud. All right, well, let's go into a little bit more about the the app itself. So med Med Collective, can you tell us some about some of the components of what makes it fun function?

Belle Wiffen: 51:32

Well, it's, um, it's a group of curated guides. So you probably notice, as I was talking about TBelle, I like things to be really high quality. So everything about the app that we've done is really high quality. So we've sourced guides, curated guides to invite them onto the app. And then I work with music production experts who are very experienced in producing meditation events. And there's certain effects you can put on the music and on the voice to give it like a very cinematic feeling. And so we have really beautiful cosmic music that just makes the hair stand up on your back of your neck, and then produced at a really high quality with those meditation guides. And then those guides come from all different walks of life, and their content is in there. And so you could just go in and listen to the guided meditations. Or you can then go in and create your own meditation, we've taken all the guides content and cut it up into little pieces and put it into categories. So you can mix and match your own experience. And I think what we found from the user behavior is people aren't as bold and adventurous yet to make a lot of their own meditations, they tend to be listening to a lot that we create for them, we'll mix different playlists in it for them and listening to the guide. So, you know, I feel like it might be a bit before its time. But admit it. I mean, meditation is a reasonably well, it's definitely not a new thing. But it's becoming more and more mainstream with the likes of Headspace and Calm. And so people are becoming more aware of it. But you know, someone started out on Calm, and they've had kind of some basic meditations. And they want to up the ante and see what else is possible, they can jump over and try the Med Collective. But we also have found that it's been a great platform that we've built. And were now talking to other meditation leaders about helping them create their own app using our platform, which is, you know, if they don't want to come become part of the Med Collective, they can have their own platform, and just an app as a model to deliver content to the world. It's so scalable, and so efficient. And I think it's a really powerful opportunity for people that have content that want to reach their users, and put it behind a payment gateway. An app is a really good way for leaders to do that.

James Evenson: 54:13

You've just described two different ways of utilizing the app. One is your your, your own, it's as an app, the Med Collective, but also white labeling. What led you to monetize meditation? Well it's, because both of those are the moderni monnit monetization of meditation.

Belle Wiffen: 54:34

It's just the way I'm wired. I love money.

James Evenson: 54:41

[laughing] I will not accept that simple answer.

Belle Wiffen: 54:44

No, I can't help. You can't, I can't help it. You can't help it. I mean, look, look at it from a universal law point of view. The more value you deliver, the more you are rewarded, and if someone wants to obtain something of value, there needs to be an energetic exchange. So if it's money, they're going to pay money or in the olden days, like, they'd give you a bag of potatoes and you'd swap like there's a trade, right. And so if you come up with an idea that's valuable, people want to pay for it. And, you know, I wouldn't have just set out and built a meditation app just for the money to be honest, I did it because I'm inspired by meditation. And I was inspired by the concept, and I believe others will find value in it. And the fact that it's highly scalable is an added bonus.

James Evenson: 55:43

I think I, I understand, and I think it's, I think it is very much who you are Belle, just like you said, it's just intrinsic. You're an entrepreneur, you create things. And part of the integrated reasoning is is make to make money. But the truth is, I know that it is an externalization of who you are, and what you value, and what you hope for other people, to be able to have the strength and the peace and the the ability to to live their lives well. Give us some idea of what what's on the horizon for it?

Belle Wiffen: 56:27

Well, we're in the early stages of the Med Collective, you know, there's kind of three aspects to what I've spoken about. There's the platform in two different ways that it can be offered, either to leaders that want to get their content out, or people that want to come on to the Med Collective. And then there's the whole biotech plugin piece, which I'm super inspired by. I think that's further away. Because I'd like it to be standalone, I'd like it to be able to fund itself. So we try to have all of our companies and investments stand alone and fund themselves. It's also my husband's little carrot for me, like get your money to get your app to make some money, and then you can spend whatever you want on it. Okay, just reinvest all the money back in. Or if I can show him some blue sky, he might be like, okay, babe, you can have some money, you can have some more cash for that.

James Evenson: 57:26

No, just to be clear, he's not your overlord. He is in a partnership where that's it, that's him just being in an equal role, correct?

Belle Wiffen: 57:38

Absolutely. He is equal. But I also like, you know, by surrounding myself with smart people, people that are smarter than me. I love delegating things to people that if they're inspired by it, and they're really skilled at it. And Travis is a really skilled money manager, and he can make the sexiest spreadsheets you've ever seen. Like, I here's this concept, tell me how much money I'm going to make. And then I just give him a few line items. And then he just whips off this really extravagant spreadsheet and all the formulas are in and I just change the numbers where I want and I can see where I'm going to be. And so, you know, we do we make all of our decisions together. But I definitely delegate that money management side for that to him like a CFO. And then he reports to me, we report to each other. You know, ultimately, if I wanted to invest money into the app more, I have to, I have to show him why and how and, and there's a genuine demand for it. But with the Med Collective, I think, you know, it's fairly fresh talent that we've got on there right now, it is very curated, but we don't have any huge name people on there. So I love the idea of being able to bring in kind of newer guides or less, less well known guides that have got really good work. That's kind of unheard of or they haven't been discovered yet. Bring some really good work in as like a talent incubator and let them get discovered on the Med Collective. And, you know, the rising sea lifts all boats, and they all succeed together. Or if one of them wants to bounce out onto their own app, they can do that, too. And we just continue bringing new talent in. But my job is great, because I just get to experiment with all the meditations and like, you know, half my day. I'm like, Oh, just checking out different meditations. And I think Wow, this is a job that I created.

James Evenson: 59:36

Nice. Wow. Well, I will tell folks, this is not sponsored. I actually wanted to do this. I have the Med Collective on my phone and I use it, but Belle and Travis are not paying me to to sponsor this. I'm doing it. I'm having this conversation because I want others to experience meditation and, and folks can give it a try for a couple of weeks without cost. You can download Med Collective on your other platforms, both Apple as well as Android, is that correct?

Belle Wiffen: 1:00:13

That's right. Like you say, James, I don't mind if people don't take the Med Collective. If they're interested in exploring meditation, just step into it, whatever opportunity, like whatever opportunity the candle is, is something that you can do at home.

James Evenson: 1:00:30

Yeah, yeah. We're going to wrap up. But I have one last question for you, Belle. You are both an inspired person and an inspiring person. That's not a question. The question is, what's next for you?

Belle Wiffen: 1:00:47

Well, I thought I had it all worked out before COVID, hit, we'd kind of sold everything and pulled our kids out of school, and we were traveling the world, and homeschooling our kids, and I wanted to be a perpetual traveler. That's a freedom, that's a freedom thing as well, you know, and I think the world will go back to a way that we can travel in the future. But for now, I'm really grateful just to be kind of safe and sound in Australia. And I wouldn't want to be traveling and affect our community. Our government's worked hard to keep it that way. So you know, working with an app, I can have Zoom calls, and I can do everything from here and still reach the world. But locally, I'm really inspired by the property development that we're doing. And that's something that's in my immediate future. There's a housing shortage here, people are finding all kinds of issues trying to get a hold of a place to live, especially families that they might be renting. And then the owner decides to sell because the markets so hot, and then families are displaced, and they're living in tents and caravans. And so there's a real housing issue here. So I think I could focus on some local issues for now, while I'm stuck in Australia, till I can travel again.

James Evenson: 1:02:14

Not a horrible place to be stuck, by the way.

Belle Wiffen: 1:02:17

Hmm, no, that's right.

James Evenson: 1:02:21

Well, that's, that's in the near that's in the near future. And I'm sure there's a lot more ahead. I was just realizing that I'm going to have to have you speak at one of our forthcoming events. Soon, I hope somewhere somewhere in the world. I hope I hope you'll be up for it. You'll be up for it. Right?

Belle Wiffen: 1:02:38

It sounds fun. Sure, I'd love to.

James Evenson: 1:02:40

Okay. All right. Well, hey, Belle, thank you very much for your time. It's a pleasure to be able to give our viewers and listeners a glimpse into your life and your world, and what makes you tick, and then how you play that out for the benefit of those around you. So thanks very much for sharing this moment with us.

Belle Wiffen: 1:03:04

Thank you so much. And I hope the viewers were able to gain something a takeaway of some kind or something that intrigued them to go and explore it further.

James Evenson: 1:03:14

I'm sure that I'm sure they have. Yeah. All right. Thanks very much, Belle.

Belle Wiffen: 1:03:18

Thanks, James.

James Evenson: 1:03:20

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